TORUGART — FAQS (Frequently Asked Questions)
As you probably know already there are many problems
connected with the Torugart Pass. Here are some of the
answers to the questions we are most frequently
asked. Most of what is written here is based
on crossing from Kyrgyzstan to China. The order
is not necessarily logical, but we hope you will
find the answers to your questions here. If you
have a question which isn't answered in the
following then please feel free to ask. We»ll do our
best to answer.
1. Why do foreigners have so much trouble trying
to cross the Torugart Pass?
Technically the crossing is closed to all except
citizens of Kyrgyzstan or The People’s Republic
of China, but
Foreigners can get permission to cross from the Department
of Foriegn Affairs in Urumqi, but
they have to be met at the border by a representative
of a recognised travel company, and
Foreigners are NOT allowed to take their own vehicles
into China (without special advance permission which is expensive
and takes at least 2 months to get) so the
Chinese agency which arranges the permission usually arranges
transport to Kashgar as well.
Also, the crossing is classed as a «second
grade» crossing. So it does not have full
facilities and is governed by special regulations,
e. g. : The border is closed on weekends and any
Public Holiday, on either side of the border!
Although no «permissions» are needed from
the Kyrgyz authorities to cross Torugart, it is still
necessary, technically, for tourists to be taken
through the border zone, for group lists to be prepared
and the drivers/guides have to have special stamps in their
passports to enable them to travel here.
2. Why is the border «closed» to foreigners?
For some time there tension between the Soviet Union and
China including border disputes in this region. It was
thought in the Soviet Union that China might send an army
across the border and approach Kazakhstan either side of the
Ala-Too mountains (just North of Issyk Kul) and parts
of Kyrgyzstan were also militarily sensitive. Kyrgyzstan
itself was a restricted area for foreigners and travel
in the border zones were strictly controlled in both
countries — even locals needed to have special
stamps in their passports to allow travel in the
region. Since the break up of the USSR, tensions
have eased and the border dispute between Kyrgyzstan and China
resolved, but some restrictions and regulations still remain.
Until 1999, nearly a decade after independence, the border
guards were all Russian frontier troops, but they are now
being replaced with Kyrgyz guards.
3. When is it possible to cross —
when is the border open/closed?
In theory the pass is open all year round except:
At weekends — every Saturday and Sunday
On public holidays :
Jan 1, 7;
Feb 2;
Mar 8, 21;
May 1, 4, 5, 9 (it is best to avoid the
first 10 days of May altogether);
Aug 1, 31;
Oct 1, 2 (but is usually closes for the first 10 days
of October);
Nov 7
and the following moveable feasts — Chinese
New Year; Kurman Ait, Orozo Ait
For bad weather —
it can snow in any month of the year —
in July 1999 and August 2000 the border closed
for three days because a meter of snow fell and
blocked the road
often in October and in twice in 2001 heavy
rains washed away parts of the road on the Chinese
side of the border.
You should be aware that, sometimes the border can close
at very short notice for all sorts of reasons …
In October 2001 — the border was closed to foreigners
for un unspecified period due to the situation in Afghanistan.
4. What alternatives are there?
Not many !!!
The other, Southern pass (Irkeshtam) opened to passenger
traffic, in the summer of 2002. Although permits
from the border authorities in Urumqi are not necessary,
the fact remains that the border zone is still a sensitive
area — and you will need toarrange transport on both
sides of the border.
There are flights from Bishkek to Urumqi —
currently on Tuesdays and Fridays — Cost USD190 (plus
airport tax). From Urumqi there are flights, a train
and buses to Kashgar.
It is possible to travel via Almaty to Urumqi
by train or by bus — but this requires
a Kazakh transit visa.
5. What documents do I need to have?
 Please
note: the following is mainly for independent travellers:
with our help it will be easier in practice
for tour groups where the company deals with all of this.
Going from Kyrgyzstan to China:
the Kyrgyz officials will look for:
- your Kyrgyz visa
- your OVIR registration. If you are in transit
from Almaty, or Tashkent and can show that you have
been in the country for less than 3 days, there
should be no problem. If you can't prove
it there may well be a call for a suitable
(financial) acknowledgment of their generosity in believing
you anyway. OVIR registration is not difficult or expensive
to get in Bishkek or Naryn or some other
towns.
- your Chinese permission to cross Torugart (the Kyrgyz
may let you leave — but not always —
but the Chinese may not let you go past their guard
post a couple of km down the road and you
may get sent back).
- your Chinese Visa
- They will ask you to fill in a customs
form (maybe two) — The forms they have available
will almost certainly be in Russian only.
Be prepared for problems if you are missing one
of these. Without the permission/visa, they won' let
you pass because you will be turned back. Without the
OVIR registration they will probably try to extract a fine
(»schtraff«).
The Chinese will require a visa and the permission to cross
Torugart. Later you will have to fill in Customs,
Immigration and Health Inspection forms. The forms are written
in both Chinese and English but the compulsory Chinese
guide will help you.
Going from China to Kyrgyzstan :
There is some debate about what the Chinese will require
… whereas many travelers have managed to cross without
special permits, our partners (and every Chinese authority
we have consulted) assure us that permission is required
and you need to be escorted. You might say «Well,
they would say that, wouldn't they but the translation
of the permit that we have clearly refers to both
Entry» and «Exit». It may be that
they are not as fussy about checking documents for those
leaving China as those arriving.
The Kyrgyz authorities will look for your Kyrgyz Visa …
it is now possible to arrange to receive
a visa on arrival (see the visas page), and you
will be asked to complete a customs form. They
also expect you to be met and conveyed through the
border zone by a recognized tour company. We know
of two cases (one where some students were trying to use
the regular Kashgar-Bishkek bus service — see below)
where the border authorities «arrested» the travelers
for not having such an arrangement.
6. Why is it important when exactly I get
to the border??
It is better to get to the border posts
in the morning. If you arrive after lunch you are
likely to have to overnight at the border post.
The Border Posts have definite opening hours. There is a 2 hour
lunch break.
Going into China — you have to get to the
Chinese Customs and Passport Control before it closes
at 5:00pm Beijing time — that is, by 3:00pm
local time in Kyrgyzstan/Xinjiang. There is a 100 km
journey between the border and the Chinese Customs and Passport
Control which is at the end of the river valley,
and on the way you will also be stopped at the
army post a few kilometres over the border where they
will check your passports and ask to see your luggage.
This is NOT Customs and Passport Control (though it used
to be, before the new one was established). We understand
that, strictly speaking, they have no right to search
your luggage — but they will ask, and can make it difficult
for you to proceed if you argue. It has been
known for people arriving at the Kyrgyz Border Post after
lunch to be refused permission to cross by the
Kyrgyz Border Officials because they did not believe that
the traveller could get to the Chinese post in time.
(We, without passengers, once did it in just
over 2 hours but we had to use excessive speed).
7. Some guide books refer to a «Foreign
Ministry Permit», what is this?
Kyrgyz citizens need a special stamp in their passport
to enter the border zone and travel through «no-man»s land«upto
the border itself.
8. Why is it necessary to «hitch a lift»
across «mo man»s land«?
Strictly speaking no-one is allowed to cross
the «No-man»s land«between
the border post and the border itself on foot or by bicycle —
although some people are reputed to have succeeded in doing
so.
9. Is it possible to arrange a return
trip to see the Sunday Market in Kashgar?
Yes, it is certainly possible (and we arrange
a quite-popular tour). But the are a few issues
that need to be considered:
A return trip almost certainly involves travelling the
same route for at least part if not most of the
journey — though it does look different on the
way back.
You would need a «Double entry» or a «Multiple
Entry» visa for Kyrgyzstan. This may require special
permission from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Bishkek.
A standard tourist visa is only valid for one entry
and for one month.
10. What information does Celestial Mountains need to arrange
permission — and how long does it take?
You need to give us full passport details, Number;
Full Name; Nationality; Gender; Date and place of Birth;
Date and place of issue of passport and date it expires
and the issuing agency as well as details of your
visa.
You also need to tell us what date you want to cross
Torugart. This is important because
It will appear on the permission. You are NOT allowed
to bring this forward a day, although you can delay
it if necessary (but please remember that the Chinese
will need to know this!!!).
You will be met by the Chinese company at the
border. They have to know when you are arriving. If they
are not at the border to meet you, then you will
be turned back!
It is true that some people are reputed to have
crossed early, or to have proceeded without being
met — but it is much more frequent for
people to have been turned back!
It is possible to arrange permission at a few
days notice … even sometimes at one day«s notice
… but the more notice we have the better.
11. How long does it take to travel to Torugart
from Bishkek?
It is 540 km. Some people do it in one
day. The bus takes two (travelling usually overnight through
the most interesting bits, but not stopping at places
like Tash Rabat), and we recommend two. We stop
overnight in Naryn, where we have our own guest
house (you don't have to stay there).
12. Can we be sure that the Chinese will be there
to be meet us?
There are stories in various books etc. of Chinese
companies failing to turn up. Our partners have
NEVER let us down! If you go in our vehicle,
our drivers will not leave you at the border until you
have transferred to the Chinese vehicle which is meeting
you.
(Unfortunately, there are also plenty of stories of tourists
failing to turn up, and Chinese guides and drivers
having a wasted journey and not getting paid.)
13. Can I get a Chinese visa in Bishkek?
Yes, but …
You will need an invitation, (you can often get a visa
in Europe etc. without one) — we need
to know your full passport details; your occupation;
planned itinerary and dates when you want to visit China.
It usually takes a week, although if you/they
have all the correct paperwork, for an extra fee it is possible
to receive «express service» and get one
the same day.
The consular department of the embassy is currently
only open 9:15—12:00 on Monday,
Wednesday and Friday (assuming they are not holidays and the
consular officials are there). There is usually quite
a long queue, so you need to arrive early (take
a book?) and it pays to make sure you reserve
your place in the queue … make sure you know who
is in front of you and who arrives after you
… maybe talk to the policeman on duty. They
normally issue documents before accepting applications —
so you will have to wait — and that can
confuse the question of your place in the queue.
Another little problem is that the Consul expects to receive
a fax from the inviting company … and sometimes
claims it hasn't arrived … entailing
a delay while asking and waiting for the fax to be resent
from China.
14. If I am not travelling from Bishkek,
is it possible to arrange transport from somewhere
else (for example: from Naryn)?
Yes, this is possible, but not necessarily any cheaper
since the car has to travel the same distance there and
back, although there are drivers in Naryn with the necessary
paperwork.
15 . What does it cost?
It is difficult to say because this depends
on things like:
Itinerary —
Bishkek-Naryn-Torugart-Kashgar (2 days);
Bishkek-Son Kul-Tash Rabat-Torugart-Kashgar (3 days);
Bishkek-Issyk Kul-Naryn-Torugart-Kashgar (??? days);
Naryn-Torugart;
??? … ???
Exactly what services you want (transport only, overnight
accommodation, a visit to Tash Rabat …).
How many people are traveling.
It won't be cheap — One tourist
got a shock — who was trying to go from
London to Beijing on USD1000 and (»knowing
that Torugart was likely to be expensive«)
had budgeted USD200 for the crossing — was
horrified to learn that the Chinese would want USD255 just
for their services … because he was traveling alone
… and that he still had to get from Bishkek
to Torugart.
For a group of 6 people it may be possible
to arrange a crossing for about USD130—150
per person.
16. Why is it so expensive to cross
at Torugart?
Torugart is quite remote (540 km from Bishkek
and 180 km from Kashgar). Also, because of some
of the regulations it can involve Agencies/Tour
firms which arrange permission and transfer from the border
to/from the border in extra work. They have to cover
their costs. For example, even if they do not cross
to China, they have to pay for
Transport costs (in both directions);
the wages of both driver/guide for the;
the cost of faxes from this part of the world —
e. g. faxing the permission to the client —
is quite expensive — it costs us over
$3 a page to fax our Chinese partners);
taxes (no small sum!) and official fees,
and (of course) make a profit.
17. Is it possible to do it yourselves.
more cheaply?
This is Central Asia and almost anything is possible
… however, you are likely still to need to arrange
services with a Chinese company as a bare minimum
and make your way to/from Torugart in Kyrgyzstan.
There is a bus service between Bishkek and Kashgar —
but it is technically not available to foreigners
… although it may carry you part of the way.
If you are traveling to China and have been able
to buy a ticket (me mean feat in itself)
you are likely to get as far as the border
post — and will have to hitch a lift the
last few kilometers to the Arch on the border itself.
If you are traveling from China — you may get
all the way to Bishkek, but the Kyrgyz authorities have
been known to detain foreigners who were not being met.
Even cyclists who make their own way up to the
border zone may have trouble — especially with the
last few kilometers.
The cheapest way of doing it is to get
as large a group as possible together and share
the transport costs. Several tour companies keep lists of prospective
clients … or you could use the Lonely Planet Thorn
Tree, e-groups like Oxiana or Oriental,
to contact other people interested.
Some last words of advice, especially for the independent
traveller:
Don't try to photograph anything that might
be considered militarily sensitive. That includes the
border post and any soldier in uniform!
Don't believe that you have made it until
you are the other side of Customs and Passport Control
on the Chinese side, on your way to Kashgar.
You can be turned back at almost any point. Even
the American Ambassador once got turned back. It may
be possible to beat the system but it rarely
happens.
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